Bad luck there robbobb, and it shows just how Alibaba operate and even Gold member seems to mean little. I wonder if Trustpass is a better reference, but somehow I doubt it. One part I did note, which another member of this forum advised me on recently. The contact said oh yes we supply UK a lot, OK then ask for a reference, even two to check out. I would assume that if the supplier is above board, and in fact good at what they do they will be keen to have someone in the UK sing their praises. On the other hand if they body swerve ignore, offer excuses, time to leave I fear.