The Wholesale Forums

[Albertini]

So here’s my tail of woe in relation to EBay and Paypal users, and a warning to any one selling imported goods through Ebay whilst using Paypal.

I have for a number of years supplied region 1 DVD’s, mainly the wholesale distribution of them from a company in Canada I’ve been working with.

I thought about expanding this business with a website, but the obvious place to start seemed to be EBay.

I had an account already on there so I checked around to make sure it was ok to sell Region 1 films (some auction sites only allow region 2 films to be sold) and it was clear that there was no specific rule barring region 1 film sales as at any one time there were around 1700 region 1 films listed on there.

So in I jumped, I set up a little shop and began listing titles. I had a little issue when I went to list my own personal Xbox, which I had bought in the US, because it had had a mod chip so that I could play UK games on it. That listing was pulled and I got my first warning. I totally accept that one as it was my fault for not digging through EBay’s do’s and don’t pages to see if this was allowed.

I must add though that I was offering no copied games at all, only original US or UK games.

However after this I began getting more VERO (copyright) warnings on my region 1 film titles. The annoying thing was that I got these warnings for doing “something” wrong but it was never told to me what was wrong with my listings. Was it because these were new release titles? Was it because I was using stock photos and descriptions? I do not know and the sheer ludicrousness of VERO is that they never tell you what is wrong with a listing so you do not know what to do to correct your next listing.

1 out of every 10 titles was getting a VERO warning, then after about a week (and 20 sales) I got a 7 day suspension.

At this point I was going crazy so I called the only available EBay number I could find which was supposedly only for power sellers. Although not one myself I blagged it a bit and found that some of my listings were pulled because I was offering titles before release. Well I was, though only in so much as I was offering films 7-10 days before they were released in the US but quoting a 10-14 day delivery period form the warehouse so customers never got their titles before the release date (in much the same way that most online retailers work).

That being said had this reason been identified to me when I was given the warnings I would have changed my listing procedures.

There were no grounds for appeal, no one to talk to, it was hugely frustrating. Had EBay emailed me and said my titles were pulled because I was offering them too early I could have corrected my listings. Instead I got a generic warning giving me no idea of what I had done wrong and no idea what I should do to correct it on future listings.

Then after 7 days my account was reinstated. So once again I began listing titles careful to ensure I was making the official release dates clear. I listed 47 titles using the same sales manager template. I went to list the 48th title which was a film due out in around 25 days (within the 30 day rule EBay have in place on preorders ) using the exact same template as the other 47 listings.

That was it. I got another VERO warning for this title and my account was suspended “indefinitely”. I wrote 3 or 4 letters to the EBay account reinstatement team, I got nothing back from them, no communication, nothing.

Around 7 days letter I got an email from Paypal saying that after reviewing my account I had broken their terms of usage and my Paypal account was also being suspended indefinitely due to and I quote “PayPal may not be used to send or receive payments for unauthorized copies (pirated, duplicated, backup, bootleg and so forth) of software programs, video games, music albums, movies, television programs, or photographs”

Now I wasn’t too bothered about EBay but the Paypal ban was a real shock as I wanted to use that on my own website.

I sent 3 or 4 emails and got a very grand sounding “final response” from some guy there simply restating their policy in relation to counterfeit items and that their decision was final.

I was absolutely furious, they had accused me of being a pirate yet they had not a shred of evidence to back up this allegation. All my feedback on EBay had been positive and I had had no disputes on Paypal.

My argument was that their policy on counterfeit items is all well and good (and something I agree with actually) however it was irrelevant in this case because I had not sold any counterfeit goods. I asked them to provide me with evidence that I had been selling counterfeit copies.

I sent countless emails, all of which were either ignored or replied to with infuriating computer generated rehashes of their usage policy. I eventually got someone on the phone and when I pushed him he told me that the last title I listed on EBay which got me the ban was pulled because “that film wasn’t out for a while so EBay presumed it was a fake”.

I pointed him towards Amazon.com which proved that the stated release date I had quoted in the listing was genuine. He then said “really? Ok but sorry your ban stands”.

So I had a situation where EBay pulled my listings on their own ignorant incorrect information.
They had effectively accused me of being a pirate based solely on the listings that I created rather than what I had actually delivered to customers.

Moreover they did not even seem to consider taking into account the fact that I had not had one complaint about my films not being genuine. As I pointed out to them who would sell pirated films at the £16+ mark I was selling them for and how come I had had no complaints from customers when all my listings made quite clear the fact that my titles were originals.

If I bought a film advertised as an original and priced art £16 and I received a copied film I would complain.

Despite all this both EBay and particularly Paypal refuse to even accept they may be wrong and they will not consider reversing this ban even though it came about because of their own incorrect information.

I had a small balance in my Paypal account (around £300) and the next thing was that I was told that this would not be released to me for 6 months due to chargebacks! This, despite the fact that for buyers they only allow a 2 month period for them to claim their chargebacks.

I went on the internet and had a look around and it was full of horror stories of people having accounts locked with thousands of pounds in there by Paypal with no grounds for nay kind of appeal.

I was one of the lucky ones; I managed to get my money out straight away as fortunately I had added a new bank account only days before my ban and it was authenticated just after the ban. I think it must have been some kind of cross over error in their system but I wasn’t complaining and I withdraw the money immediately.

So I’m done with Ebay and I’m done with Paypal, I urge all of you trading with that company to tread carefully.

Make sure your EBay listings contain your own photos of products, use no standard descriptions, and don’t offer anything before release date.

If you do get a suspension get your money out of Paypal because they do communicate with each other and they will close your Paypal account..

[wragge11]

I feel for you mate, why not try setting up a website, but using NOCHEX!

[Saajan]

Or you could use PPPay

[Albertini]

Just putting the finishing touches to my website now. Using Zen cart, and using Nochex as well!

My thread was aimed more as a warning to people as to the way EBay and Paypal behave.

the paypalsucks website is a good read for anyone doing a lot of business through Paypal.

[Albertini]

Originally Posted by saajan

Or you could use PPPay

Yeah i want to use pppay for overseas transactions but i cant find a module for it with Zen cart.

[wragge11]

There is a module in CubeCart and OsCommerce

[bhsizemo11]

The moral of the story is to only sell items you have in stock and can ship out immediately. Even if you comply with every eBay listing policy and they ban you, they don't have to give you a reason for the ban. It's their company, and they'll tell you this.

With PayPal, you must ship the item within 7 calendar days of payment, so at the minimum only list items if you can comply with this rule (every merchant account has this rule, with the exception for special order items which require customization). You will always have fewer problems when shipping the item the day after payment, use your own pictures and your own descriptions (and after the official release of the item).

[BillyA]

Brett - good advice but I'll take the argument one step further.

I bought my wife a Tiffany bracelet directly from the Tiffany website for Christmas and she did not like it. I meant to send it back, but forgot to. After 30 days, they will not accept any returns. Okay fine.

So I listed it for sale on Ebay. Now I'm pretty experienced with selling on Ebay and I think I know what I'm doing. However, my listing was pulled for Vero reasons as well. My items looked exactly like other sellers. Didn't use trademarked photos and even scanned the Tiffany receipt and posted it in the ad.

Shut down 3 times.

Why? After talking to an "account manager" at Ebay, I was told that I was being reported by other sellers. So I asked why they would shut me down just because someone reported my auction. Did they even look at the listing? The answer? No. We assume the self-policing nature of Ebay by its members is sufficient.

Ie. If someone reports your listing for any reason, there is a good chance they'll shut it down without even looking. I gave up and gave the bracelet to my mother.

Chalk up another reason to hate Ebay.

[iBuy]

I live in Cyprus and trying to get a paypal sellers account is like running continuously into a solid brick wall hoping for something.

Ive had some brilliant ideas and at one point over christmas i made just over £500 in a few days, then ebay told me i was selling conterfeit nintendo wii? How the ****** can a conterfeit wii be released on the same day as real wii? My ads included real photos with official documents from the official EU nintendo distribution center. What more do ebay want?

Although all feedback was positive from my buyers, they dont try to help the genuine people who really care!

So i ended up being blocked for 14 days

[Albertini]

I do think one of the hidden reasons about bans and warnings relates to other sellers complaining to remove you as competition from Ebay.

In my case how can someone complain that i'm selling copy DVD's from my listing only? It is ridiculous. You should only be accused of selling counterfiet goods AFTER you've delivered it.

I'm convinced that other region 1 sellers on there were putting in complaints as i was first to get new titles and maybe impacting on their business.