The Wholesale Forums

[ForSenaLLC]

Hello all,

There exists a situation at hand where 10 forum members are involved in an uncomfortable spot. So far, only 2 members have started discussing this with me but I anticipate that there will be more to come and thus I am opening this thread for open discussion. I would greatly appreciate the involvement of everyone in the forum as there is a great need for objective, third-party opinions.

As some of you may know, I initiated a group buy for the Motorola SLVR L7 Phones. The 10 forum members mentioned above consist of myself and 9 buyers. There are 3 threads relating to this group buy as listed here:
Survey of interest in Motorola L7 SLVR Phones
Motorola SLVR L7 Group Buy Poll
Motorola SLVR L7 GROUP BUY - Here it is!

In addition, I have all the e-mail correspondence between myself and the buyers related to this group buy. Also, each buyer has submitted an ICPO, has received an invoice, and the 8 members who used credit cards to purchase have submitted a signed receipt agreeing to pay their due amount along with a copy of their driver's licenses.

As you can see from the above threads...and further supported by the e-mails and documents that I have, I never stated that memory cards would be included with the phones that I am selling. I have never made any statements that would even imply that. But now, I am being told that I was misrepresenting or that I was being unclear.

Here are some arguments that I have heard.

1) Every SLVR package I see on eBay has a memory card with it.
- There are apparently many listings on eBay with no memory card in it. Also, almost all of the listings that do have memory cards included make sure to explicitly advertise that and also usually claim that it is a free gift, impying that it is something extra.

2) I didn't know that there was such a thing as a basic package as opposed to a deluxe package.
- Quite frankly, your lack of knowledge cannot be my responsibility. I didn't know of these packages either...I just knew that some come with a memory card and some don't. Since our packages did not come with a memory card, there was no mentioning of a memory card. On the other hand, nobody forced you to purchase these items. You weighed your choices and you made a decision. The consequences of your decisions are your responsibility.

3) You didn't deliver what I expected. As far as I'm concerned, your items are incomplete and thus I cannot accept them.
- What you imagined is really immaterial when we have a clear agreement on paper as to what I need to deliver. I delivered everything that I promised and thus my obligation is fulfilled.

4) There is a missing item in the package you are selling and you failed to mention that.
- Nothing is missing. The package is the whole, complete package. I only mentioned the SLVR Phone and, of course, that is included in the package. Anything else that is part of the whole, complete package is included in the package. Nothing has been taken out of the package.

I find it very unfortunate that some buyers were solely relying on eBay sales and now they are stuck in a position where profit cannot be made. But, honestly, I think it is wrong to try to put the blame on me. I am willing to try to help in ways that I can, but I cannot just take on your losses so that I am in debt while you are set free even though you are the one that made the mistake, not me.

The prices we have are still competitive against retail and, through different venues, profit can be made (I feel like this is something that is extremely emphasized on this forum yet few people listen). In my opinion, eBay should never have been the target marketplace for this situation. As many have suggested before, eBay should be used as a general gauge of the industry and also as a good place for advertisement.

Here is my conclusion for now. I have fulfilled my obligations in this deal. I understand that some of you have put yourselves in a bad predicament. I am willing to help in ways that I can...but in the end, this is mainly your burden which you must deal with primarily and which the rest of us can hopefully help you with, purely out of good heart.

Now, I am sure the other 9 members have their opinions to state, too. I hope that this thread can become a public mediation ground where we can all bring our heads together and find a rational, reasonable solution. I would also greatly appreciate any objective, third-party opinions from respectable members of this forum.

Let me finish by saying that I am aware that I can sound quite forceful when stating my opinions but it is only necessary since I need to protect myself. I will continue to maintain a strong stance as long as I believe that what I'm saying is correct. However, I am more than willing to listen to what everyone has to say and to discuss these matters in a reasonable, professional manner.

Thank you very much for reading thus far.

[amazingfinance]

If there was no mention of the memory card in your sales pitch etc... Then the members which purchased the items should bite the bullet...

You agreed to purchase Motorola Slvr and that what you got...

[BillyA]

I can see both sides of the equation here. Yun explained what everyone was getting. He just didn't explain what you weren't getting. I am actually very surprised that none of the buyers asked the question. A standard and deluxe pack are very different things - it seems the buyers don't know the market very well.

If Ebay was your only selling vehicle, then I feel buyers should not have been buying this product. The wireless market moves very fast. Unless you have an alternate selling channel (ie. website, B&M, etc.), odds were that the price would move down on you anyway.

As for the seller, he delivered what was promised and no more. Just checking closing items on Ebay, these phone minus memory are going for about $210. You can still break even.

My two cents anyway.

[JMGames]

Maybe the buyers and the seller discuss some sort of loss/profit sharing agreement?

Say the buyers list em on ebay. You take the total revenue they get minus the fees and shipping costs.

Then you see how much they (buyers) lose/make. Then the buyer and the seller split it in an agreeable way.

If its a loss, seller picks up some. If its a gain, seller gets more money

What does everyone think?

[ForSenaLLC]

That has been suggested by one of the buyers. I am contemplating on it for the moment...but so far, I am still thinking that, if I were to do that, then I would be taking on some of the results of the buyer's mistake. I think most of us would agree that eBay is not the place to be selling these items. I don't see much chance of any real profit being made on eBay for this deal and thus the buyers need to find other venues to sell their phones. I might be more willing to enter that type of agreement if I were guaranteed a genuine effort on the buyers' side. But if a buyer were to sell on eBay, knowing that there would be a loss, and then ask me to take on some of that loss, I feel that is very unfair to me. Listing on eBay does not take much effort...but making money legitimately always takes lots of effort. I, myself, put in a great amount of effort in successfully completing this group buy and I ended up with pretty much no real profit relative to the time and energy that I spent.

[DSC]

How much are the memory cards for them?

[BillyA]

Any buyers want to state their side of things?

[avideo]

I have to agree with the seller on this one. I think it's the buyers responsibilty to ask all questions prior to committing to a deal. A seller can not be held responsible for the buyers profit or loss once he has delivered the goods as promised. I'm kind of baffled that this is even an issue...seems cut and dry to me. It does not seem the seller deceived the buyers. You have to know the products you want to sell and do the research on them prior to purchasing. I've found that many people don't do the research and get burned because of it...

[diablo audio]

In my humble opinion, the seller cannot be held resposible to deliver what the buyer has assumed will be delivered. What is to be purchased and delivered needs to be agreed upon in the terms of the sale. Therefore, the seller in this case is not legally responsible whatsoever to reimburse the buyers.

That being said, I suppose that it can be easily assumed that a memory card will come with a phone when buying it. So, that puts everyone in a tough situation. It is possible that the seller could have made it clearer that the memory cards would not be included in the transaction.

I would suggest that the buyer does share some of the loss (if there is to be one) in this transaction. If the total losses were to be calculated (based upon good faith i suppose) I would recommend that the buyers are each responsible for 9.5% of the total losses and the seller covers 5% (considering that there are 10 buyers and 1 seller).

What does everyone think?

Also, how much do these memory cards cost?

[ForSenaLLC]

Your honest opinions are all greatly appreciated. Please do keep them coming.

I have asked my supplier how much it would cost for 128 MB TransFlash/microSD cards. My supplier is a cell phone supplier but he has a separate supplier that sells memory cards. His current price quote is 1 month old...so it is quite possible that the prices have dropped more but one month ago the prices were as follows: 100+ units = $15/pc, 315 units = $13.50/pc. I asked specifically for a 315 unit price since that is the quantity of the group buy. This price does not include shipping and handling but since these memory cards are very small, the shipping should be minimal.