Laws on fakes and conterfeits, how trading standards and courts deal with it?

Woodlock · 21-10-2009, 04:11 PM

Hello,

I am new to this wholesale business but found dhgate.com and bought some designer polo shirts and subsequently sold them on ebay. Having read around this website I have been increasingly concerned that I could have been selling fake products. I did all the 'spot a fakes' on the internet and they looked very genuine but am still concerned as I do not want to be accociated with conterfeit products.

What are the legal reprocutions if these turn out to be fakes, I am worried that the products have my name and paypal attatched to them and I could be punished even though at the time I was unnaware they could even be fake.

Could I face legal punishments? What are the laws surrounding this subject?

Thanks

**londonking** · 21-10-2009, 04:36 PM

food for thought

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...._clothing_scam

crispydog · 21-10-2009, 04:58 PM

If you bought branded clothes from DH gate the chances of them being genuine are somewhere between slim & non.

Riki80 · 22-10-2009, 09:54 AM

If Trading Standards get wind of you selling fake designers then you will get a warning of some sort. If you ignore the warnings and you continue selling hooky gear then they will mount a raid and seize any stock that they deem to be fake. You will be interviewed under caution and then Trading Standards will consult with the relevant local authority's prosecutions team whether or not you should be prosecuted.

Now, what happens from here on is a question of money, resources of the council and totality of the offence. If you got caught with one item of fake gear then you could be cautioned or reprimanded. If you get caught with a few bits then it is likely that you will be hauled up in front of the magistrates on a summons. Due to financial circumstances you may not get legal aid in the magistrates' court. The fact that you did not know that the goods were fake may not constitute an offence and ulimately you would have to plead guilty (depending upon the relevant legal advice you receive). If you were to go down then the council would make an application for costs. They work on a private basis thus they would submit to the court that they worked e.g. 10 hours at a rate of £150 per hour plus other costs so they should be paid £2000 in costs. The court will look at your own financial circumstances and award costs and a fine on that basis.

Now if you are involved in a large scale movement of fake designer clothes then this is likely to go to the Crown Court. There you will get legal aid for solicitors and a barrister. If you plead guilty or you are found guilty then the thing that the Local Authority prosecution team will care about most is the confiscation of your assets.

When I was in practice there was a case (which is still ongoing in fact) where a guy sold £5000 worth of fake designers and they also found a pallet load of fake Nike trainers in his warehouse. As the matter progressed he pleaded guilty for possessing all of the goods and the local authority then said that they wanted £6m from him! Why was this? He had built up a property empire from selling shoes and had used the proceeds of the business to service all of the mortgages on the properties (around 20 he owned). The prosecution's assertion is that because he paid for the mortgages from his business account and his business account was tainted with the proceeds of crime, then all of his properties are now tainted and should be confiscated!!!

If anybody wants legal advice then please let me know and I can point you into the right direction. I know some excellent solicitors and superb barristers who are experts in this field and who talk a lot of sense!

**hardwareheroes** · 22-10-2009, 11:32 AM

Riki - I wonder if you would be good enough to give me your email address or, indeed, email me?

info (at) hardwareheroes (dotty) co (dotty) uk

Woodlock · 22-10-2009, 11:41 AM

thanks riki- did not expect such a comprehensive answer. Has anyone on here been prosecuted or warned before?

**Anthony** · 22-10-2009, 11:54 AM

Riki80 - I would just like to say what a fantastic contribution you have made to this thread. An extremely detailed and interesting piece of information, many thanks for taking the time to share it with us all.

Riki80 · 23-10-2009, 06:39 PM

Thank you all for the feedback. I just wanted to get across to people that this can get really serious, especially when the potential seizure of assets are involved. There are a variety of things that can happen so what I have said above may not always be the case - TS can be harsher or lenient, it just depends on each individual case.

**Pete** · 23-10-2009, 07:09 PM

From what I have seen here and elsewhere, including a few instances of my own customers having a problem with customs in several countries, it seems like no one wants to go to court. I'm not suggesting the bringing in tons of goods concealed in containers would not end up in court, but for the most part, folks here and on similar forums are dealing with air courier parcels and not sea containers.

I've never known any of these to go to court. Here on TWF we've had mention of agreeing to have 10k or so worth of goods destroyed. It's generally done by intimidation. "Agree to have these goods destroyed and to never traffic in products of this sort for the rest of your life and we will let it end there." Sent on a fancy legal firm's letterhead with all sorts of officers and partners names listed.

Even if you know without a doubt you are in the clear, are you going to gamble the cost of an attorney to buck heads with all these high-class folks with their names on the letterhead? And still face loss of your goods, plus a fine or jail time and plenty of costs, as you won't have any luck with a divorce attorney from the local mall.

I don't want to make light of what Riki is saying, that is the flip side when you are brave enough to say "Let's let a judge decide" or the quantity is such that the government feels it must step in with criminal charges.

I am in the 3rd or 4th largest port in the US and we regularly see 5,000 pairs of designer jeans seized, etc.

We also had a supposedly very respectable brass shop that sells in Colonial Williamsburg, a major tourist attraction with an extremely clean name, who was fined something like $50,000 for removing "made in India" stickers from the bottom of brass items they were getting top dollar for.

**wulf2ram** · 23-10-2009, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete

We also had a supposedly very respectable brass shop that sells in Colonial Williamsburg, a major tourist attraction with an extremely clean name, who was fined something like $50,000 for removing "made in India" stickers from the bottom of brass items they were getting top dollar for.

I guess the problem was the stated home made or us made wateva and thats the problem? Otherwise i dont see the problem

on the post in question a solictors letters maybe a good idea. stating along the lines I now feel i may have being selling goods that were not genuine articles unknowing to me and have now realised this may be the case however I do not have the stock or the facilites to check this.

you sign it
the solictor signs it

it may just cover ur ass as it shows your concern before problems arise.