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returning item purchased due to fault

Discussion in 'Start-ups & Business Advice' started by Dave Casuals, Sep 9, 2017.

  1. Dave Casuals

    Dave Casuals

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    Just a quick question, as I can't find answers anywhere. If I purchased a machine from an online shop and they say in their terms that their refund policy is 30 days, are there any ways it can be returned after this time? I purchased a specific item of machiney for my business back on the 21st June 2017. I've used it 4 times as was required for a project coming up so just been testing a few bits out. I've recently had a major technical fault with this machine where it almost caught fire. There was lots of smoke coming out of it when turning it on. I hadn't noticed it as it does smoe a little anyway but after 5 minutes the smoke got progessively worse and stunk as if somethign was burning. I lifted the underside of the machien up and all the wires have cindered along with the actual operating unit which is burnt. Had I left this machine and left the area it would have almost certainly gone up in flames so only greatful I was standing infront of it. I'm not concerned about a refund and don't mind a replacement but worried this is a low grade machine as it doesn't appear great quality so just wondered where I might standwith an item that has a major tachnical fault.
  2. Gary

    Gary

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    Aug 22, 2009
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    If it was from a retailer, as in a consumer transaction then you would still have the right to return for repair or replacement.

    However even if it was B2B any seller worth their salt should do something about such a major malfunction.

    Have you contacted the seller yet to explain what happened to see what they say?

    Also if you paid via PayPal or credit card you'll have some extra protection should they not resolve it amicably.
  3. Dave Casuals

    Dave Casuals

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    I purchased this on the 21st June as mentioned in the original post but hardly used it as it was intended for use on a project I havn't really got around to starting so barely used it. It's had not even an hours worth of use. I've contacted the seller over weekend so awaiting a reply. It was purchased from a hobby shop in the UK. I originally viewed the machine working on a youtube video and I thought it suited the intended purpose required but when it arrived it did feel a tad cheap and more of a starter unit. I paid about £120 but was caught out as the machine has various uses and if you need to use it for alternative purposes need add ons which added an extra £50 to it. The same unit is on ebay for £40.00 but home made by a seller. I've seen a few of these on ebay for sale made by the seller but because they involve a mains adaptor wanted to purchase from a respectable shop + wanted a brand of some sort. Even though i'd never heard of the brand it has it's own website and is made by an Austrain company who make other hobby machinery such as 3D printers but all seem fairly starter units aimed at newbies. The instructions that came with machine were terrible and gave no actual instructions and the spelling and grammer all gave indications of a chinese made item like seen on many imported products so I had my concerns from the get go.

    I'll await back to hear from the seller but really don't know how long I've got as the original refunds policy on website is 30 days however this isn't about trying the machine and returning this is down to the unit nearly catching fire so needs to either be replaced, repaired or refunded. I paid through paypal I think.
  4. FiveStar

    FiveStar

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    May 8, 2017
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    It is fairly understandable to ask for an exchange for a new one because of the major technical fault which causes you can not use the machine.
  5. Cody

    Cody

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    Wow, that's incredibly dangerous! I totally agree with @Gary, despite going over the 30 days, the retailer/seller should settle something like this as it's a malfunction rather than a "I don't want it anymore" situation.

    Keep us dated with the next moves and outcome.
  6. Cody

    Cody

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    What was the product in question by the way?
  7. Dave Casuals

    Dave Casuals

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    it's a hot wire cutting machine used for cutting and shaping polystyrene and other rigid foam boards.

    I will keep this post updated but just out of interest what are the standard routes one would take on a small value purchase should the seller not wish to comply and accept the return. The value of this machine and additional add ons I was told to buy are approx £167.00 so not a great deal but at the same time I'm not prepared to see my money go up in smoke (pardon the punn) after less than 3 months.
    Cody likes this.
  8. Bethanyjane

    Bethanyjane

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    To be honest Dave, if the seller won't replace or refund, and you paid through paypal. I would contact paypal under their buyer protection, covers 180 days.
    They should be able to help.
    Bank x/fer, you're at the mercy of the seller.
    Card payment, you may get somewhere with your bank.
    Good luck, though it does sound like a chinese import.
    Cody likes this.
  9. lpbusiness

    lpbusiness

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    Aug 5, 2017
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    When you bought the product did you ask the supplier if it could do what you wanted it to do? I don't think watching a youtube video could be enough. If they've told you it can do what you want it to do, then you should have protection under SGA 1979. However, you might not if you've just assumed it can be used for a purpose of which it was never intended.

    Regardless, any express conditions regarding returns are effectively ignored if they've given you a faulty product. If it's clear that this product has malfunctioned for the purpose it was intended to be used for, then it is clearly not fit for purpose - well it's dangerous! - and you can get a refund/replacement.
  10. Pembroke

    Pembroke

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    Feb 10, 2011
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    The section you require initially is Section 2, subsection 14 clause 2 "Where the seller sells goods in the course of a business, there is an implied term that the goods supplied under the contract are of satisfactory quality".

    Here's a link http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1979/54
  11. Dave Casuals

    Dave Casuals

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    It was used for it's intended purpose. The machine can't really be used for anything else other than cutting foam which it melts/splices through. It can't cut plastic or anything else but even if you did assume it could cut wood or plastic the cutter would not splice through it. However it would not malfunction the unit to then start smoking and in turn catch fire. When i turned the bottom of the unit upside down after it stopped smoking the wires were burnt out and the wires come out from the main operating system which the mains is connected to so something inside has overheated. If left the whole thing would have caught fire but I managed to turn off the unit after 5 minutes of persistent smoking. As mentioned previously the machine smokes anyway when foam is cut and sometimes small bits of foam get stuck inside the cutting section and can continue to burn meaning there is constant smoke for a period so its nothing out of the ordinary but the smoke was turning acrid after a while and I know something wasn't right as it smlet like plastic burning which turned out to be the wires fixed under the unit.
  12. Dean

    Dean

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    The Sale of Goods Act no longer exists. It was replaced by the Consumer Rights Act in 2015. It's irrelevant in this case anyway as this was a business to business transaction.
  13. Pembroke

    Pembroke

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    Hi Dean, as far as I can work out The Sale of goods act still exists and applies to all goods sold, the consumer rights act is further protection for consumers.

    As I noted in my other reply "Where the seller sells goods in the course of a business, there is an implied term that the goods supplied under the contract are of satisfactory quality".

    Read all about it here: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1979/54 and http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/part/1/chapter/1
  14. Dean

    Dean

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    SOGA was replaced by CRA...

    "The Consumer Rights Act 2015 became law on 01 October 2015, replacing three major pieces of consumer legislation - the Sale of Goods Act, Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations, and the Supply of Goods and Services Act. It was introduced to simplify, strengthen and modernise the law, giving you clearer shopping rights."

    http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-rights-act

    This is legislation that protects consumers. In a business to business transaction, as a buyer you are not a consumer.

    As you say, in b2b, the law of contracts are what matters. There are some implied conditions, some of which mirror consumer legislation, but SOGA and CRA have not and do not apply to b2b.
  15. lpbusiness

    lpbusiness

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    Hi Dean. I'm a trainee solicitor in my spare time and have to inform you that that is incorrect. The CRA removes any impact of the SGA on consumer contracts, but it certainly still applies for B2B. So just to confirm, as I don't want people misled, the Sale of Goods Act 1979 still applies to B2B contracts!

    FYI Pembroke, just to be pedantic, it's section 14, subsection (2) - you don't need to worry about the terms 'Part x' in legislation :)

    Following your last post Dave Casuals, you then should have a claim under SOGA 1979 if nothing else. Read section 14:

    "(2)Where the seller sells goods in the course of a business, there is an implied term that the goods supplied under the contract are of satisfactory quality.

    (2A)For the purposes of this Act, goods are of satisfactory quality if they meet the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking account of any description of the goods, the price (if relevant) and all the other relevant circumstances.

    (2B)For the purposes of this Act, the quality of goods includes their state and condition and the following (among others) are in appropriate cases aspects of the quality of goods—

    (a)fitness for all the purposes for which goods of the kind in question are commonly supplied,

    (b)appearance and finish,

    (c)freedom from minor defects,

    (d)safety, and

    (e)durability."

    This is a condition. I'd ask for an exchange with a new product and/or damages if you've had anything damaged in the course of operating this machinery. Hope you don't have to get legal, but sounds like a good case on paper.
    Pembroke likes this.
  16. Mike Cartwright

    Mike Cartwright

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    I'm glad that nothing worse happened and that you're able to notice it immediately. It's just fair to ask for a replacement or to have it refund since it's not of best quality, even if you're over the 30 day period. Also, I would contact PayPal too if ever things with the seller don't go well. They have the 180-day buyer protection. Good luck!
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