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Threads being closed for discussing sensitive issues

Discussion in 'Forum Support & Feedback' started by Volantary, Sep 8, 2012.

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  1. Volantary

    Volantary

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    A quote from Gary in a thread about the BNP:

    As much as I can see where he's coming from, not discussing anything that could cause a confrontation makes the forum a very quiet place. In the same vein it excludes sport because people supporting rival teams could get into a confrontation. It also excludes talking about areas of business like doing business in China with the Chinese, Pete often makes points about how their culture and way of doing business differs greatly from the western way and I think he's well within his rights to point it out, yet under that rule he wouldn't be allowed to.

    I think if someone takes issue with something someone says they have a right to say it and the OP has a right to defend themselves. Most, if not all, people on here are reasonable people and can have a discussion with differing opinions which draw to some sort of natural conclusion, either one person changing their opinion or agreeing to disagree.

    Just my two pennies.
    toysandgifts likes this.
  2. PrestonBros

    PrestonBros Banned Member

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    I think the worst part is that he writes his own point of view, and THEN says thread closed.

    Either close it and say nothing more to provoke conversation, or let it continue.
  3. Volantary

    Volantary

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    Just to make it clear, I don't want to make this about Gary, I think he's doing a good job at keeping things quiet (along with the other 2 newbie mods), it's about the policy in general. If you have a problem with that specifically you might be better putting the issue to him personally, but as I'm sure moderators have to follow guidelines set by Anthony et al I assume this is a forum wide policy.
  4. JermaineR8

    JermaineR8

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  5. uhafmail

    uhafmail

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    I didn't see the thread but the reason the thread was closed (according to the quote above) is not in the "inappropriate" material list in the forum rules...
  6. PrestonBros

    PrestonBros Banned Member

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    Sure, I completely agree with you - Fromthe time I have been on here, I have noticed a huge change since the new moderators have arrived. Gary seems to be a great guy.

    It is more of a general comment, I don't think (for any moderator) that you can make a point and then say Thread Closed. It's like slapping someone, and then saying but "you can't touch me".
    Extreme example, but it was the best analigy I could think up!
  7. Michael

    Michael

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    I was just about to start a thread asking something similar but then saw this thread.


    How can a moderator say all of this...

    As mentioned here, you speak your mind about another white person, no problem, someone from another race speaks their mind about a white / british person, again, generally no problem, you speak your mind about a person of another race, your racist, even if people don't know you or how many different races you may have as friends.

    I'm not saying it's not an issue or that it never happens, but the racist card is also played all too often by people who are politically correct or want to be seen as being so (or by people wanting to play the victim), a perfect example being when I used to work in the bar trade, a black person was making racist remarks about a white person, the white person asked them to stop (quite politely actually), the black person made another racist comment and threw a punch which the white person blocked then retalliated by punching back, the police arrived and arrested the white person for a racial attack, that white person had only been in with some of his black friends a few days earlier.

    A perfect example of why Race is a touchy issue, especially given in some cultures you will be cast out by your family if you even think about having a mixed race relationship, therefore, proving that when it comes to racism it's not just the british.



    Only to follow on and say this....

    Can people please be reminded to NOT discuss race, religion, politics or anything else that could cause lead to prejudice / accusations or confrontation - Thread closed
    toysandgifts and PrestonDesigns like this.
  8. Gary

    Gary

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    The view that I posted was a very open one, in saying that there is good and bad in everybody and explaining why the issue is sensitive, it isn't really my point, it is a point shared by many from many observations on many forums spanning many years, such threads generally always lead to confrontation.

    Whereas I agree a certain level of conflict can be a healthy thing, certain lines need to be drawn on cetain subjects, especially those that have caused many conflicts repeatedly over the years and will cause many more, I have even seen this on previous forums I have frequesnted leading to death threats, violent attacks and even someone having to leave their home and basically go into hiding due to constant abuse based on a forum comment, and whereas for some reason I cannot see this in the terms now, I'm sure that it used to be there and believe it still should be for the reasons mentioned above, maybe anybody too concerned should point this out to Anthony and see what he says on the matter.

    Bottom line, I closed that thread because someone said they didn't wish to be perceived as racist as some people think that already, and the very next post was somebody provoking responses as to why they may be deemed racist by saying "well they must think that for a reason", which is argumentative, albeit in a minor way, but this can often escalate, and sometimes it's a case of prevention is better than cure. Especially without people knowing anything about the person in question (just browsing in this instance), or the fact that they had already fully expalined themselves in another thread, which I pointed out,.

    In the other thread linked from the one mentioned above, I also asked members to direct the conversation away from discussing race, something which Lace did not say that I was wrong for doing, in fact something that she thanked me for.

    Again, healthy debate on certain topics is both healthy and welcomed as it adds a bit of spice to things, but personal comments are not (and are against forum rules), and certain sensitive subjects such as those mentioned upon closing the thread many people take personally, therefore it's made personal, there is no-one to blame for that as each have their own beliefs (some stronger than others), and that is of course their own perogative, however, such discussion does nothing for building relationships in a forum / community, in fact quite the opposite as it causes divides which needn't be there (as has been seen previously, including here).
  9. uhafmail

    uhafmail

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    I am sorry Gary but you stuffed up here. Find me another thread in the entire history of TWF that a moderator has posted their personal opinion in a thread and then closed the thread in the same post for people doing the same.

    Tell me which rule the thread broke?

    5. Inappropriate Material In order to protect The Wholesale Forums and its community members from legal risk, and to maintain an environment that encourages constructive debate and discussion, the following inappropriate materialmay not be posted on this message board and we reserve the right to remove any material at our sole discretion without notice at anytime:
    • Posting inflammatory, abusive, racist, misleading or otherwise offensive comments, remarks, language or insinuations.
    • Posting material to which a third party claims copyright, other intellectual rights or that breaches applicable laws without a) permission from the owner of such copyright or other intellectual property rights or b) adequate referencing and acknowledgement of the owner of such copyright or other intellectual property rights.
    • Posting obscene, vulgar or pornographic material including links to other website's that contain or promote this material.
    • Posting guides or partaking in the discussions of how to unlock or circumvent copyrighted or protected software and technologies.
    • Posting content or sensitive information that may invade the personal privacy of another individual or business.
    • Posting unsolicited/commercial advertising, or the promotion of your own business or website unless; a) you are a registered community advertiser or b) have purchased advertising/marketing as part of bespoke solutions.
    • Posting unsolicited/commercial advertisements that attempt or invite the distribution of counterfeit/trademark infringing products/services. (Typically fake, replica or otherwise brand/right infringing goods).
    • Posting guides or partaking in discussions that promote or endorse pyramid, affiliate, referral or quick cash schemes.
    • Posting, requesting or distributing material via e-mail or the private messaging system that contravenes any of the terms.
    • Posting irrelevant, off-topic or generally ill-thought or unexplored material/content.
    • Posting pictures or graphical images within your post that are not hosted on your own web space or without the explicit permission of the web space owner. (Typically referred to as hot-linking).
    • Posting any material that contravenes any applicable laws.

    As a moderator you are supposed to be impartial when dealing with forum issues and you clearly weren't.
  10. Gary

    Gary

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    Basically, I was saying that racism isn't a one way street as it is often portrayed as, and yet again, this thread is only further proving my point, ANY opinions on race / religion / politics will be seen as wrong by some people, regardless of how it is written.

    And why 'should' moderators be impartial, we are people at the end of the day, members like everyone else, and just because some cannot seem to grasp the principal of what a person says (as it was an impartial comment as I made the pioint of saying 'not saying it doesn't happen' and just pointed out that it isn't as big an issue as it's made out to be.

    and I can say that then say to not post comments bedause it was not me who originally posted such content, again, I explained why it was a sensitive issue that was commonly misunderstood, and again, based on personal observation.

    Ergo, I wasn't stating my opinion I was stating facts, there is a massive difference, and had the subject not came up, then I wouldn't have posted anything, anybody see my point yet?
  11. Michael

    Michael

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    Gary you took your opportunity to add comment to the thread which although you say is fact it is actually only what you believe to be fact making it your opinion.

    You clearly posted as part of the discussion and then closed the thread and had the cheek to remind others not to have such discussions.
  12. Just Browsing

    Just Browsing Banned Member

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    I was actually thinking of starting a thread about this myself.
    Also I do not blame Gary as he is just sticking to the rules but I think that this is what is making this forum CRAP.
    I have tried to post more than usual and basically add more content(even if it is waffle lol) but things like this will seriously make me give up and I will just go elsewhere.
    Okay I cannot give advice on Wholesale or bloody Ebay but I can point members in the right direction and also I have helped keep debates going and helped to get people talking again(well IMO anyway :D).
    Seriously though a rule like this will kill of all the so called "community" spirit as that is what groups do they discuss and debate, fair enough if someone is out of order then delete that post but to stop a whole thread just because of a comment is silly.
    Just to add Gary has been very helpful to me lately but I do think he made a mistake with this one, but then again he may have been sticking to the rules.
    If Anthony agrees that we cannot discuss things like this then I say we all pack our bags and go elsewhere to a place that adults can discuss
  13. PrestonBros

    PrestonBros Banned Member

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    You used your own personal experiences, thus it isn't a general view, it is your view.
  14. Just Browsing

    Just Browsing Banned Member

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    Okay lets get this onto whether THE RULES are right and not a lets bash Gary thread. As I say I think he made a mistake but lets not all jump on him, he has been doing the modding a short time so lets give him a break.
    I would be interested to hear anthonys view though as if we cannot discuss anything such as the above? then the people who you want to post will seriously give up.
    I had a thread made about me by successjourney(who coincidentally has not bothered with TWF since) about how I moan about the state of TWF but then hardly ever post. So I have posted more and got involved more but if this is the way the forum is going to go then its time to seriously desert a sinking ship.
  15. Michael

    Michael

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    I have seen Anthony make similar statements in the past and close threads, although he didn't take part in the discussion and then close it immediately after!
  16. Gary

    Gary

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    No, I posted what is fact as I have seen it proven to be so on many occasions, and again, I did not start the discussion and neither would I have done, nor would I have posted anything on the matter had the matter not bee brought up, ergo, had it not been mentioned, nobody would have been saying they won't say somethign because it would be perceived as being racist, then no-one would have then directed a post at them in an accusational manner, they would not have then responded back with something that could too be deemed as argumentative, then I would not have posted any observed facts on the matter or closed the thread as there would be nothing to close in the first place.

    As it wouldn't have been already having racial accusations within several posts, this is my exact point, such posts bring opinions, facts, a mix of both from most people as it is something that most people will have a view on, some far stronger than others, these people are only posting a small amount of text, other members will put 2 and 2 together and come up with 5, but I can assure you that at no time have I ever posted my personal opinions on this subject on this or any other forum, nor would I, as again, I know that somebody would disagree, take it wrong / personal or otherwise, as these types of discussions always do without exception, and again, my response wasn't taking any sides and it was impartial if people actually read and understand it without letting emotion cloud their judgement.

    I have already explained myself (and my post), and am not prepared to do it again, therefore, again, if somebody would care to point this thread out to staff we'll let them decide
  17. Gary

    Gary

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    As Michael said, Anthony has too closed such discussions for the same reasons.

    You will struggle to find any forum that actually allows such discussions as race, religion and politics and there's a reason for it, there are many other ways in which healthy debate can be had without the need to resort to such sensitive matters.
  18. Just Browsing

    Just Browsing Banned Member

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    Well if we cannot have an open discussion amongst adults then that is just another nail in the coffin of TWF.
  19. Gary

    Gary

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    Not a view, an experience, a factual observation from what I have both seen and heard, a view is an opinion, and fact is fact, again, there is a massive difference.

    and it was a general view of everybody involved and who was there at the time INCLUDING the black person who got punched as even he said the white bloke wasn't racist, so again, NOT my personal view but a general view of those present and those who heard about it.
  20. Just Browsing

    Just Browsing Banned Member

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    I do not actually mind that someone accuses or alludes to me being something as that gives me a chance to explain my side and then.
    In fact it makes the forum a bit more exciting in that we can have a heated debate.
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